Posts by Crisis of Conscience

40

Hearing the Voice of God or His Messenger

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i reserve my comments for now, and just post a youtube video on the subject for your comments:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjsntzfdcu.

Crisis of Conscience

OTWO, in my opinion, this is an excellent post and video as well.

It's actually something that I think about when I read some experiences here as well as hear things about the GB.

I am not directing this to anyone specific here nor is it my intent to offend. If I do, my deepest apologies; I really mean that. You are entitled to your beliefs, as am I. But what makes me so different in that God (or whoever) doesn't talk to me? I'm not willing to believe that I haven't given him the chance. I have tried with pure sincerity to express myself in prayer and never heard a voice. And no joke intended, I'm not deaf.

Sure one can reason, "Oh, he's answered you but you don't realize or haven't perceived it." Alright, when I ask someone if they want to be my friend or simply ask if I could borrow money, I generally get a clear and audible response. No guessing game there. Not hard to realize or perceive, but admittedly may be hard to accept.

WHY the hillbilly does it have to be so gollygeegoshdarn hard with God? WHY do I have to guess at his answer? Better yet, WHY does he only seem to talk to 'some' on this board or even the GB? Am I that imperfect? He supposedly made his voice heard before many when Jesus was on earth and now it's a guessing game? COME ON!!

So much for a best friend, who never responds. Or in my possible, complete ignorance, I never hear it.

CoC

54

For born ins- what tipped you off it was wrong

by teela(2) in

jw
friends

at a young age i remember watching tv and commenting why is the red cross always helping people and we don't.

the second big one is if the witnesses only started up in 1890 - 1900 did jehovah not have anyone else doing the preaching work?.

as a child i don't think we think about theological problems so what tipped you off?

Crisis of Conscience

I'm what I consider 'somewhat' of a born in. I remember celebrating some holidays. But up until age seven, those declined more and more until they fizzled out since my parents had already been studying for a number of years.

Anyhow, what tipped me off was the double standards that I have seen in different situations.

I really started to notice it when I served at the "House of God", Bethel. I definitely did not expect to see that there, since it was always given the impression of holier than thou. But it made such a strong impression in my young mind that at this stage in my life, I can no longer ignore it. Not to mention that the double standards list has grown longer as I've gotten older and became more "active" in the org.

Now I'm on a steady decline, yet rather content. But the JW's will never believe that. Whatever.

CoC

5

WTBS Inc. ...'Theocratic appointments'!

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

it is clear , after baptism, they ".. will receive the free gift of the holy spirit" .

"but he, being full of holy spirit,

*** and who today will performs the " laying of the hands "

Crisis of Conscience

Nice post!!

BTTT

CoC

42

Response to "Do you think the F&DS are directed by Holy Spirit"

by onefootout in

thinking about the article a year ago, 6/15/09 watchtower page 23 para 15.. if you are put on the spot, or even in casual conversation if asked if the f&ds, anointed, gov.

body ect.

make mistakes, have holy spirit, are spirit directed ect.

Crisis of Conscience

elderelitehow could anyone who is "spirit directed" make a mistake in bible understanding...? why would a doctrine ever change? yes men are imperfect, but God's spirit is not. if he could inspire the bible to be recorded perfectly by imperfect men, if could protect its translation as the WT claims over thousands of years, why cant he prevent those clowns in brooklyn from making mistakes? dosent add up to me...

The few people I've brought this up to can't refute it. And I've stated what's highlighted in green almost ver batim to what elderlite wrote, even before it was posted.

Someone I was talking to about this at first tried to defend the mistakes by giving the example of Moses leading the Isrealites out of Egypt. He said that the Isrealites questioned why they were going to the Red Sea a different way when there was a much shorter way. He asked me, "Did it matter which way they went, since they still had Jehovah's protection and arrived there safely?"

I responded with encouragement, as I have been taught by the TMS and KM. I said it was an excellent example. LOL

But then I asked that where did it show that they were directed the COMPLETELY WRONG way, especially by Jehovah, who was guiding them with the pillar of light? They may have taken the LONG way, but were they told to turn around and go the COMPLETELY WRONG way? The answer given was an affirmative NO.

Why is it, or should it be any different, with someone who claims to ask for God's guidance and feels they received it? Show they be completely off course, completely changing what they believe in, yet having asked God for Holy Spirit everytime a new idea was addressed? New light, IMO, should be adding on to something previously taught, not mutating it into a completely different beast (for example, the new generation understanding)! It's not new light if you change it, it's a new teaching (again IMO)!

Sounds fishy. And the person agreed. But that dog gone FDS is a tough nut to crack! He reverted back to the point that, and still feels, they are providing direction today - wrong or right. AARGH!!

CoC

42

Response to "Do you think the F&DS are directed by Holy Spirit"

by onefootout in

thinking about the article a year ago, 6/15/09 watchtower page 23 para 15.. if you are put on the spot, or even in casual conversation if asked if the f&ds, anointed, gov.

body ect.

make mistakes, have holy spirit, are spirit directed ect.

Crisis of Conscience

Excellent point onefootout!

Sounds like a good subject and article for Family Worship Night ........................ if I was actually keeping up with it.

Keeping this for reference too! Thanks!

CoC

83

If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

by Crisis of Conscience in

jw
friends

this is my biggest dilema.

although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

i love people!.

Crisis of Conscience

exwhyzee I used to be suspisious of former Witnesses telling stories like this, thinking there had to be more to it than they are telling. It all changes when it happens to you.

I'm definitely sorry to hear what you have gone through.

And I totally agree with you regarding the comment above. Opening my eyes to what is really going on in this religion has really caused me to be sympathetic with especially those that have been or are disfellowshipped, instead of a judgemental prick. They are not wicked or have the desire to be gross sinners just because the society says so!!

I have been making an effort to reach out to some of them now, as a true friend, as long as I receive word that they are discouraged with or disappointed in the org. Otherwise, despite being disfellowshipped, they may still have their blinders on.

But I wish you and your family the best.

CoC

83

If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

by Crisis of Conscience in

jw
friends

this is my biggest dilema.

although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

i love people!.

Crisis of Conscience

Billy the X - You're hilarious! LOL

Aphrael, thank you for sharing your feelings.

And really, thank you everybody for your contributions. It's very comforting.

Honestly, I'm not really afraid of not being able to make friends in the "world." In fact, because of Facebook I have been able to reach out to many from my past.

I guess the difficult part is that it takes years to build up memories. And I have many good ones that I have had with these conditional friends. I know personal things about them. I have seen many of them go through difficult situations. I've experienced many funny moments. I feel I cherish those moments. And I have a love for them no matter what. I'm not conditional. That I know.

But I refuse to fall back into the WT hole. That is my future goal.

CoC

10

It's amazing how many things in the publications and even talks are opinion but made to appear as fact.

by Crisis of Conscience in

at the convention recently, i can remember different reasons being given as to why the end is near.

pick whatever one suits you best but basically it goes, 'because this and that has happened, the end is ever closer.'.

well here are some of my ridiculous opinions stated as fact, just to prove a point.. if you put pepperoni on pizza, there is no way a person will reject it.

Crisis of Conscience

LostGenerationThe continuous reinforcement and application of these opinions as fact is why this outfit is successful. Without any real perspective, its almost impossible for active JWs to see it any other way.

Excellent point! I find it so annoying at the moment (but try not to show it) when I'm talking with my wife. She feels I have valid questions but continues to defend these opinions! She's not connecting the dots. ARGH!!

But I'm trying to be patient.

CoC

83

If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

by Crisis of Conscience in

jw
friends

this is my biggest dilema.

although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

i love people!.

Crisis of Conscience

Nice to see this thread responded to again. I CONSTANTLY think about this. I know a lot of people in my circuit and even district. The conditional thing crosses my mind also.

But the thing is that I get along with pretty much anybody. That's why I love people. And I have known many of these people, JW's, since I was a kid.

It is a battle, a real battle, a mental battle.

After the convention, I found myself asking, do I really want to lose all these people? The honest answer, I'm not ready for it right now. I guess I have to keep putting up an act because my heart is definitely not a JW anymore. Hang in there everyone, even new guys here like scottmedeiros (Welcome!!).

CoC

10

It's amazing how many things in the publications and even talks are opinion but made to appear as fact.

by Crisis of Conscience in

at the convention recently, i can remember different reasons being given as to why the end is near.

pick whatever one suits you best but basically it goes, 'because this and that has happened, the end is ever closer.'.

well here are some of my ridiculous opinions stated as fact, just to prove a point.. if you put pepperoni on pizza, there is no way a person will reject it.

Crisis of Conscience

At the convention recently, I can remember different reasons being given as to why the end is near. Pick whatever one suits you best but basically it goes, 'because this and that has happened, the end is ever closer.'

Well here are some of my ridiculous opinions stated as fact, just to prove a point.

If you put pepperoni on pizza, there is no way a person will reject it. If you run across a very busy highway as fast as you can, you will never get hit by a car. Do you believe any of them, even if I offered proof? Maybe some will, maybe some won't (despite being ridiculous).

No matter what evidence I bring forward to try to support these opinions, they can't be proved 100% true and therefore always remain opinions.

Likewise, all these predictions that were/are made by the WTBTS and have been put into print have in reality proven to be opinions. And the fact that they have had to be changed so many times says a lot too. If they would have been fulfilled when stated without a change, they would be fact!!

No wonder my faith is so shaky nowadays! The Watchtower foundation is crumbling around me quickly.

CoC